Teil 2 - Martin Frey und Stacy Taniguchi - Über lebensverändernde Entscheidungen, Erkenntnisse und magische Momente

Gast 1And in that perseverance, I found new levels of strength.

Gast 3And then I started to do it.

Torsten J. KoertingTo be able to continue to do it. But it has something to be able to do it. To learn what the young people are doing.

Gast 2You're really making me think about these questions. It's wonderful.

Torsten J. KoertingAnd is it fair enough for you, Martin, if I ask you the question, you've crossed many ladders in your life. What would you cross it for?

Gast 1Well, I think I first, I find adventures or I seek out adventures or I should say I pursue adventures because of my curiosity. And my interest to find out more about myself and who I am. But to Stacey's point, I prioritize my adventures and my time allocation towards the values and principles that I hold. And so I have this sort of hybrid matrix going on. And curiosity is the driving force. And yet at the same time, how you spend your time is crucial. We're all gated not by money, but by time. And if we want to have that life of thriving, we better do the things that promote well-being and enable our ability to thrive. If we pursue things for the wrong reason, let's say extrinsic motivation like rewards from praise and everything else, we will shortchange ourselves. So we have to find those internal drivers that make us grow and bring out the best in us to reach our potential.

Torsten J. KoertingWhat has been the drivers for you, Martin?

Gast 1Well, curiosity, OK, has certainly been a key driver. I think another key driver is the ability to have or tie all of these experiences to purpose and particularly the purpose of being able to stand here today with you all and share what I think are some key enablers on your journey up to your summit. And that's why I get up in the morning with a smile on my face and get to work.

Torsten J. KoertingSo to put it into the context of the ladder is to see what's on the other side, right?

Gast 1Yeah. The curiosity, right? Drives it initially. Priorities through values. And also where I think is the optimal challenge. Let me share one other principle with you that Stacey is alluding to. As we cross ladders, some ladders may be too easy. Meaning they're only five meters or two meters, right? Other ones might be too steep and they go straight up. We find those moments of flow and those experiences of awe, just these, wow, killer, amazing experiences when we match the adventure or the challenge to our skill set and our capability. And we want it to be just beyond our comfort zone, our reach, so that going through that process enhances who we are and helps us realize we're much greater than we previously thought.

Torsten J. KoertingMartin, having a vision bigger than yourself and looking at Stacey that has ticked all the items on the 100 list. Take us with us on your journey ever since. You've been on so many mountains. You have looked on so many other sides. You've crossed so many ladders to see what's on the other side. What's, let's say, one of the magic moments that probably has a big message behind it that you experienced over those, not just 11 years, but ever since.

Gast 1So, I'd like to share something. A lot of people think that the moment of awe happens when you're standing on the top of Mount Everest or when you've conquered the challenge. And I'd like to invite you to think about that the real moments that you remember for the rest of your life aren't always at the summit. Where they are is when you realize you've surpassed your expectations and you realize you're going to make it. And that's what I call that bliss point or that moment of awe. And they become the things that drive your own transformation to make you more than you ever thought possible. And it doesn't have to be a big challenge. Sonia and Wolf, you guys don't have to go climb a mountain, okay? You can take it in whatever way you'd like, whether it's learning how to paint or embracing an entrepreneurial challenge in business or whatever.

Torsten J. KoertingWhat I really love is the turning point when you do keynotes in the U.S. You speak about your seven summits. You speak about the learnings that you got out of this. You speak about the seven Cs and what you've experienced together with your family and others. And I step into the perspective of the audience, sometimes sitting there. Why is that important for me? I will never climb Everest. You know, I'm not keen to do those seven summits or whatever, you know. Yeah, it's great stories, great experiences. And I took one or two messages out of this. But how you turn it around at the end really touched my heart. Because you shifted all around by asking the question, so what's your Everest? That's right. And I think this puts it into the context. And everybody could ask themselves, you know, all the 58 people here in the room at the moment, just ask yourself, what's your Everest?

Gast 1That's right. And so the idea of being, as you pick those items on your list, and as you think about those, maybe there's one or two that stand out. I first saw Everest on a business trip to India, and I flew up to Nepal and saw Everest. But I came home from that thinking, oh, there's no way I could climb Everest. But it wasn't until a few years later when I started to put myself in the picture. And I realized, whoa, what could I do to make it my Everest? And how could I embrace that in a way that would all of a sudden become, okay, this is my mountain. What do I have to do? What do I have to learn? Who do I have to become? What do I have to practice on? And I kind of laid out a whole strategic game plan and then went to work. And so then that's where that process, right? So the items you select as your summits are what Stacy's laying out for you perfectly and prioritizing. Now you use that venture mindset and the process of going after it with that idea of, okay, I've set my vision. I've locked on my summit. How do I prepare? You lay out the game plan. Number two, how do I embark? And when you embark, right, I'll give you an example. When I sailed 8,500 miles from the Caribbean to Australia, you go through the Panama Canal. Okay. It wasn't when we left the dock. It was when we crossed the Panama Canal and then you have nothing but ocean in front of you and 8,000 miles before you hit a marina and any spare parts. That's when we embarked. Then you have to navigate. And this idea that it's not a straight line to the summit, that you have to go back and forth and find your way and make decisions. And sometimes you have to stay on course, even though it doesn't look good or there's a storm on the horizon. And other times you have to pivot and switch gears.

Gast 1Those are the decisions that help you get where you want to go, no matter which way the wind's blowing. Then you've got to persevere. And there are emotional things that hold us back within ourselves. And there are environmental dynamics that we actually have to learn to control our own environment around us in order to manifest our destiny. And so as we persevere through all of that, we then arrive at our summit, which is greater than ourselves. And that is the transformational experience.

Torsten J. KoertingThere's so much gold in those steps, you know, to define the vision that's bigger than themselves, embark, step into that vision, embark for the journey, persevere. There's so much gold in that. And this applies, and you mentioned that at the very beginning, Martin, once you decoded that approach, there is almost every outcome, every vision, every result, every objective, every project that you would like to turn into a reality.

Gast 1And so it goes back to prioritizing and doing it where usually one Everest is about all you can handle. You can handle a couple other things. But if it's an Everest, you better make it your single focus in life for that chapter of your life.

Torsten J. KoertingBut if the Everest is even mentally too high, you can still watch a movie in between. Finding Namor.

Gast 1Yep, you're right. Stacey. Yeah, exactly. I love it. You know the story. Yes, I do.

Gast 2PJ, can I share a picture for just a couple of seconds?

Torsten J. KoertingYep, sorry. Yeah, we'll share it, Martin, in a second. Yep. Just a second. There you go.

Gast 2But when I'm talking about a crevasse on the ladder goes across, I know some of you are very familiar with glaciers and stuff, so you know what you're thinking. But for audience members who have never been on a glacier or whatever, let me just show you a picture of what I'm talking about. And if you can think about this picture. Kim. Sorry. You're thinking about what you would cross the ladder for. Let me just see if I can hold this picture up.

Torsten J. KoertingSo now is the right moment to talk about fear.

Gast 2This is what I'm talking about. Imagine yourself on one side, and you have to get across to the other side. What would take you to the other side? And I want you to really look at this picture and keep this in mind when you ask the question, what would I cross these ladders for to identify your core values? And just so you know, it's about 1,000 feet down below those ladders to the bottom of this crevasse.

Torsten J. KoertingThis needs a big value that has to be your own.

Gast 2Yeah. I just wanted to give them a visual for that.

Gast 1You have to know your why. And that's a key part as it gets hard. You know, when I climbed Everest, it took me 51 days. And for 47 of those 51 days, I didn't even see the summit. So you have to remember your why when you're in the trenches and you're running a business and it's so hard and you've got to worry about getting enough pens for the workers and all the little things that need to come together in order for you to build your business. But all of that is part of remembering where you want to go and locking on to that vision or that summit you want to achieve.

Torsten J. KoertingSo it's the why, it's the values and so much more that is required to take you on the other side of that ladder. Stacey, thanks for sharing that moment. And if I ask you what has been your magic moment before we turn that to the audience, there are so many questions piling up in the chat. And I think we should get everybody the opportunity within those two hours to, you know, personally ask you those questions. Stacey, what has been your magic moments and maybe one of the biggest learnings you took out of it during your journey in thriving for your list?

Gast 2I, you know, for me, I think, um, it's, it's my belief system. Um, when I was growing up, uh, I, I, I was raised in a home where Buddhism was the religion, but we didn't practice it that much. And I didn't really understand it very much. So my teenage years and my young adult life was pretty squirrely. I, you know, I, I was probably a very good example of somebody that you would not want your daughter to meet and become a good friend with. Um, which I'm not proud of, but that's just the truth of my life. But then when I met my wife, she introduced me to a belief system that kind of gave me like a compass bearing. And it was really, you know, for me, it was, it, it was a religion that helped me to understand my purpose and that this life is one which definitely you want to choose to thrive because it's the only one you're going to get. And, and you need, and you're here, here to learn things. You're here to experience things. Um, you know, it doesn't take much to go on a hike out into the wilderness somewhere in the mountains or, you know, a park maybe to realize, you know, there's, there's something greater than ourselves that has created this and given us the opportunity to experience it. Um, so when I came to the realization that, you know, I, I have to believe in something higher than myself and that this life is one in which I really need to take advantage of opportunities and to really try to do something good. That leaves the world, that leaves the world a little bit better place than what it was when I found it. Um, that was a huge turning point for me. So even, even though, you know, uh, I think there's people that say, you know, well, mountaineers seem to be selfish people and, you know, they're, they're only thinking of themselves and whatever. I, for me, it has always been, the experience is going to teach me something and I need to then take what I learned to not only apply it to my life, but if it can be helpful to other people, share that experience with them. Um, because there's something that's just always interesting to me that, and it was the topic of my studying for my PhD and as a professor at a university, my research was all around what causes meaningful experiences in people's lives.

Gast 2Because, you know, there's no question that we have all kinds of experiences, but many of them are not meaningful or transformational like Martin mentioned. So we could understand what makes meaningful and transformational experiences. Can we design them so they occur more often in our lives? And that was really my research as a professor. And what I've discovered is, um, pretty much a part of what we're talking about right now. And, and that is, have, you know, have a purpose, have, have, have a belief system that gives you the sense of, you know, what would you cross those ladders for and, and, and, and you let that be your rudder to steer you to look for those opportunities that fit that. Because one of the things that, and this is part of the other tool that when you start to create your list of the things that you want to accomplish, learn, you know, places you want to go, whatever. I would advise your, I would advise your audience members never put something on that list that would be in conflict with the values you've identified by crossing the lines. Because if you do that, you will not thrive. That's what I've learned in my life.

Torsten J. KoertingAnd you hopefully will fail if it's not congruent with your values, right?

Gast 2Yeah, it's, it's, it's very interesting. Martin mentioned, you know, that you, you know, you, you kind of have to understand, you know, some of the, the, the prioritizations of these values. And one of the things that I, I, I told people, there's a difference between the values that you would cross the ladder for. And there are values that determine how you cross the ladder. So I tell a story about a gentleman who was given a choice to make about whether to take a pay raise. And the pay raise was dependent upon him, always agreeing with the CEO. And the pay raise was quite substantial. So one of his goals is financial security for his family. So you, he could easily have said, yes, I would do that. But the problem was that offer was in conflict with another value. And that was his integrity. That he couldn't work for a company that would expect him to always agree with the CEO. Well, there's a difference here. Financial security is what you would cross the ladder for. Integrity is how you cross the ladder. And I would suggest to your audience, how you cross the ladder always is more important than what you would cross the ladder for.

Gast 2For example, if you would cross your ladder for your children. How would your children feel that once you got across the ladder, but they saw you throw people off the ladder that who were in front of you. You know, what would be the result of that, you know, what would be the result of that? So when Martin talks about prioritization, and I know he's talking about it in a lot of different ways. But one of the ways would be always separate how you cross the ladder for what you would cross it for. And think about how I cross it is more important than getting to the other side.

Torsten J. KoertingThanks for sharing, Stacey and Martin, so far. And I think the room is now warm enough. Yeah, they got context. They got to learn a lot. They are humbled, I'm sure, and curious. And maybe there is one or the other question. And I'm not reading them out loud out of the chat. But what we ask everybody to do that would raise a personal question, first of all, to turn your video on if it's turned off. Because we would like to see you in spotlight. And secondly, to raise physically, not physically, but electronically their hand. You find that out there at the Reaktionen. You can raise your hand. And with that, you move up front in our big screen so we can pick you and put you on the spotlight. So, who are the ones that would like to raise some questions? We've got Justus and Jutta later on. So, we start with Justus and put him here into the spotlight. Justus is one of the younger ones. He just finished a sort of school last year. But he's a person. When I look at him in his age, I think it's 18 or 19, how he thrives and how he lives his passion. Of course, he's the first one to raise his hand. So, Justus, what's your question? I've wrote it down for me because my English is not that good. I have one great passion and that is the subject of film, but I just can't identify a why for myself. I already have an idea of how I want to live one day when I grow up. But what can I do to face what can I do to face and, of course, overcome doubts on my way?

Torsten J. KoertingSo, what I understood is he has his vision, but he struggles to find your why. Is that correct?

Gast 1Correct. Well, and overcome his doubts along the way.

Torsten J. KoertingAnd overcome the doubts, yeah.

Gast 1So, Justus, who are you asking the question to? So, it helps us know who you'd like to hear from.

Torsten J. KoertingTo you.

Gast 1To me. Okay. So, do you remember when I talked about self-efficacy, which is the belief in your own capability? Self-determination is the skill set to figure out how to get it done. And resilience is what you do when it doesn't go well, right? You need to engage resilience. So, as we go towards our mountain or our summit in life, whether that's relationships, education, work, career, what happens is we have to exercise enough self-efficacy to step out of our comfort zone. We believe that we can take it on. You apply to college because you think you can graduate, right? You apply to move forward. It's part of that human drive to see what we're made of. As we find success, we build self-efficacy, the belief in ourselves that we can do bigger things. Along the way, we face challenges and problems. And as we learn how to successfully solve those, we can overcome our fears. And we'll talk more about fears in a second because Christina had some good questions about that. But going forward with self-determination takes us down the road. It's how we get down that process I laid out. And then, obviously, there are times when we don't think we can do it. And we have to go back and rely on self-efficacy and our knowledge about our skill set and all the things that we have already overcome and apply them to the situation at hand. And so, not letting ourselves emotionally defeat ourselves. When I climbed Denali that first time, we started with six climbers. And at the end, it was just my climbing partner, Steve and I, that made it to the summit. They all dropped out, not for physical reasons, but for that emotional doubt and anxiety. They started to first question the weather. Oh, I don't know if it's going to be a storm. Maybe we shouldn't go today. Oh, I don't know if I have the right gear. Oh, there's like this sled is too heavy. You know, all this stuff that they started getting their brain going and saying, oh, you know, I don't know. I don't know. The doubts crept in. And so, just like fear, which I want to talk about later, but we challenge doubts with hope. Hope overcomes doubt. You start with hope. I hope I can or I think I can. You don't know if you can, but you go that far. Then hope turns into optimism.

Gast 1Okay. Optimism is a belief in a favorable outcome. But it isn't as strong as self-efficacy. It's a component of self-efficacy. So, you build self-efficacy when you turn optimism into self-assurance. And it comes from experience. Self-determination comes through practice, trial and error, and the learning process that we all go through in all areas of our life. When you take self-efficacy, self-determination, and resilience, you can overcome any doubt. And then we'll talk more about fear.

Torsten J. KoertingOkay. Thank you very much. And for everybody who knows Justus, he's that, he's the role model for applying those principles that you've just shared. We know him. Yeah. So.

Gast 1That's awesome, Justus. Because that's, you're going to go far in life.

Torsten J. KoertingI hope so. Sometimes you get thrown back like today, but today we go further.

Gast 1So, Justus, one other point. You are very young. And it's always hard to see in the future. When I sailed around South Africa, it was a complete fog blank. I couldn't see more than 10 meters in front of the boat. Truly. 10 meters. I didn't know what was ahead.

I didn't know what was ahead.

Gast 1Whether it was a ship or a whale, you'd have to go on faith. Only when you look behind when you're an old guy like me, do you see the trail of success. And that's why self-determination and self-efficacy are so powerful because they enable you to take that step forward and keep moving and maintain your momentum in spite of the doubts and the challenges and the obstacles.

Torsten J. KoertingThank you, Martin. Thank you, Justus. Thank you, Justus. Justus, is your question answered? Yes. Very good. So, we're going to see you strive even more. And I don't know in how many hours or maybe minutes. We want to see the decision that you have made tonight that might change your life forever, that might change your life or give it a different direction for two millimeters or even further. So, Justus, be prepared. Okay? Okay. Good, Justus. Big hand of applause for Justus. And we now turn it over to Jutta. Jutta is somebody that has changed my life forever because I used to be sick at least every three months for a week. I had a cold, I had a sneeze, I had whatever, and it always kicked me out of my training regime and routine. And she gave me some magic powder. It's about five and a half years ago. She gave me a magic powder, which I take since then every morning. And I haven't been sick for a single day for five and a half years. So, Jutta, you are my change role model. I don't know what you did, but what you did to me and what you gave me. Yeah, what you, you know. Yeah, it's amazing. So, Jutta, but you're also striving for something, striving for a vision that's bigger than yourself. And you're always going step by step by step to take the next step. So, Jutta, what's your question to Stacey or Martin?

Gast 1My question is to Martin. If you plan, for example, to go on a sailing trip with your family and you never sailed before, you need courage, but you have to learn skills to do it. And as you said before, there can happen some things. You can come in danger with your family. How you know or what's the point you say, I learned enough. I have enough skills to go or when it's stupid to go because you don't have enough skills. How you feel or how you know, now I learned enough and I go, even there can happen something. And what's the moment when you say, okay, don't know, you need some skills. So, Jutta, your question is about how do we manage risk and how do we make sure that we are not taking undue risk, right? Unnecessary risk, like I will never go base jumping, okay? It's too risky for me, okay? TJ had me in a hang glider, okay, in a paraglider, and I was feeling nervous because I don't know how to hang glide. TJ is one of the best paragliders in all of Germany, and he is the best. I trust him, so I was willing to go with TJ.

Gast 1As we develop a skill, there are usually ways we can gauge that level of risk, and that's part of our self-determination, understanding what the criteria is to be successful and what are the risks that we have to control. You do that as a parent in how you manage your children. You develop that innate sense of what they're capable of and when they can cross the street by themselves, right? You develop that same gauge. Well, that's true in adventure. It's true in business. It's true in all of those factors. As we mature, we see the milestones that we need to meet in order to align our skills to the challenge. And when we find that right balance, it's challenging, but we never have that fear of, oh, we're going to die. Somebody asked the question, do we fear like we were going to, you know, was death, were we about to die? I never felt that in all my adventures. I promised my wife I would never cross that threshold, and I kept that, you know, within that safe bound. Now, I developed the skills to manage it in a way that I felt comfortable. And so I knew I had the technical skills. I couldn't control the weather, but I could always decide when to stay in the tent. And I could always manage things the best way I could.

Gast 1Okay. Thank you. You're welcome.

Torsten J. KoertingAnd Jutta, did you see the face of Martin's wife? You know, she was in that call 10 to 15 minutes. Did you see the face, how it turned, like, in this eye-open emoji when she saw the picture that Stacy has shared with us with that letter? Could you read that face? Yeah. Oh, he crossed that kind of ladder? It's all because of curiosity? Jutta. Okay, thank you. For that question, is that question answered? Yes. Thank you. Fantastic. Good luck on your journey. And thanks for changing my life, Jutta. Yeah. And we opened that. We closed the loop about the magic powder. Christian. All right. So we've got another question, another hand that's been raised. And please feel free to raise your hand to ask a question to Stacy and Martin. So, Christian, I put you into the spotlight. And you fired up some questions already into the chat. So there might be more than one. Christian, what's your question? Yeah, thank you, Justin. I thank you, Stacy and Martin, for sharing your stories. It's amazing. So my question would be to Martin, how do you manage your energy? So your physical energy in your body and when you go on the Everest. So I think it takes a lot of energy and strength and things like that. So what are your top tools to manage this?

Gast 1Christian, I think this is one of the most important questions that people have come up with today. And I saw your question in the chat. This one and managing fear are two very important questions. As we think about taking on a challenge that takes 51 days where you are putting everything out every day or you are running a business and all of the demands and the uncertainty and the stress of managing a business every day, whatever it is. We have to develop our own internal process of daily recovery and renewal. Stacy can talk about this as well. Stacy can talk about this as well. We've had a number of conversations about this. When I look at all the guys that dropped out of my Everest team or all of these other expeditions, I talked about the mental challenge that they went through and why they got defeated. And why I was successful. And I didn't realize why at first. But I had a daily process of recovery and renewal so that I could rejuvenate myself emotionally, physically, spiritually, you know, all of those things. Whether it's mindfulness and a practice of mindfulness, whether it's prayer, one of the things I did was recite poetry. And that was very inspirational to me. I'm going up the mountain. I'm going up the mountain. I'm reciting poetry. I can do it and just kind of get into that groove and ensure that I didn't defeat myself so that I could stay in that state of flow with the mountain. And then I could maintain that efficiency and not get sucked into the vortex of worry and doubt and fear and all those sorts of things. That's the big differentiator. And that ability to understand your body and your mind and your emotions well enough to keep them in check in a way that your prefrontal cortex manages your limbic system, right? You understand that? In a way that keeps you energized is exactly what you need to do.

Torsten J. KoertingAwesome. Thank you very much. Christian, question answered? Yes. Very good. So, Christian, thank you very much. And Stacey, I will make sure that I'll pick somebody that raised a question for you, okay? Because there have been three questions in a row, all to Martin. And Nicola, you ask a very special question in the chat. And if it's okay with you, just give me a thumbs up. I would put you into the spotlight. Is that okay, Nicola? Very good. So, this is Nicola. She's a very spiritual and deep diving person. She's somebody that is capable in asking a question that will really make you think and that turns emotions from the inside to the outside. And we've perceived that she's also keen and has a passion to take people outdoors into the nature and let them thrive there and expand their comfort zone in a very special way. So, Nicola, what's your question?

Gast 3So, the question I asked Stacey in the chat was, what has been the situation where you faced the biggest challenge and then overcame it? And it's actually a question that I'm interested to hear from both of you because, well, what makes me, well, the impression or the first answer people might think of could be, well, of course, it's something, you know, when you climb the Mount Everest. Because there's so many dangerous situations. But apparently, the most dangerous situation or the most challenging situation is not the most obvious one. So, it's in fact, which has been the most challenging situation in your life internally?

Gast 2Well, I responded to Nicola, but unlike Martin, who has done a lot of adventures because of his passion for these things and taking them on, a lot of my adventures was like it was my work. So, I've been a mountain guide for over 35 years. So, going to Everest was because it was a job. Climbing Denali multiple times is because it's my job. You know, rafting the Nile River is because it's my job. Backpacking in the wilderness. So, it's a little bit different. My answer, I think, will be different from Martin's because when it's your job, you need to really be prepared. Because it's not just your life on the line, but it's the client's lives on the line. So, I approach the challenges, I think, differently in those situations. So, my answer to you in the chat was, for me, probably, it's always the one that comes to mind, was when I spent four years of my life working to earn my PhD. Because that was like, I would rather climb Denali backwards with my hands tied behind my back multiple times than to go back and try to earn another PhD. And, in fact, there were so many times while I was going through that program that I was wondering and doubting whether I really did the right thing.

Gast 2But, I think the approach is similar to what Martin's talking about. You know, is it on the other side of that ladder? And is it valuable enough for you that you're willing to take those measured risks? And, like I said, it's how you cross the ladder. Did I have the safety net and the safety equipment to help me get across? And a big part of that was the support of my family. If my family was not there encouraging me, supporting me, going through, you know, the horrors of trying to be good at a particular subject matter that you usually hear from other people that, you know, nobody else cares about it but you. That was challenging for me and having the support system in place helped me to get across that ladder and to be able to, you know, plan it out, think through it, you know. And it may not be the life and death situation of, like, climbing a big mountain, but in a way it was for me because this was on my list and it was something that I had decided I wanted to do, you know, the question of how much did I want it now that I'm in it came, you know, surfaced a lot of times. But for me, you know, there was always an answer that kept me just moving along and a lot of it had to do with my support system.

Gast 3Martin, what was it for you, the biggest challenge that you internally faced and then overcame?

Gast 1I think one of the biggest challenges in my life has been the birth of our disabled daughter. We knew at birth that she was severely delayed and not thriving. We spent months going to the hospital back and forth. And it took five years to understand what the root cause of the problem was. And as we were going through all of that, we learned that our entire life would be completely different. For the rest of my life, I will be bathing and changing diapers and feeding her and all these sorts of things. And so I had to redefine what success was for myself personally, what my retirement would be like, what all of the things that I aspired to, like being a CEO or other things, I realized I could no longer do. And I had to change those values or I had to align my priority to those values, right? The how you cross the ladder in a way that was congruent with my new situation. And as a result of that, I was able to create plan B. And plan B turned out better than plan A. And I'm very grateful for that. And Lily, our daughter, my wife kept a blog and 10,000 people followed Lily on her adventures as we sailed around the world. And it was amazing that Lily was an inspiration to a lot of disabled families or families with this, kids with disabilities. And it was fun to be able to turn that around and make it different than what we had perceived life to be.

Gast 3Yeah. Thank you.

Gast 1Nicole. Nicola. Yeah. So what about your hardest thing in life? Got to share. I'm going to share. You got to share.

Gast 3I'm going to share. Sure. My biggest challenge in life was that I did a 180 degree turn and skipped my old job. So I was a project manager in an IT company. And at a certain point, I realized, I asked myself this question, is this what I want to do to the rest of my life? And is it fulfilling? And the immediate answer at home on my couch was no. And that scared the shit out of me. I was like, wow, what now? But at the same time, I was sure that there is kind of a, everybody has kind of a vocation, a determination to be here on earth and experience certain things. So I went on this path and tried to figure out what would fulfill me. And yeah, so I found my inspiration. I found what I would love to do, which was working with people. And so I went on this path. I took trainings. I did a three and a half year training to become a coach and trainer and all this stuff. And then I skipped my job about 10 years ago, 10, 11 years ago. And since then, I've been self-employed.

Gast 3And so last year, I started combining even new aspects and combined the passion for mountaineering with this coaching.

Gast 1Oh, really?

Gast 3Yeah.

Torsten J. KoertingMargie, she's a big competitor for the nature leadership experience. Okay, thank you, Nicola. Thanks for your question. I think you need to. No, no, no, I'm good.

Gast 3Thank you both. Thank you for answering.

Gast 1Thank you, Nicola. I appreciate that courage that it takes to do those transformations in life. That's where you had to pivot and change course. But you had an inherent self-efficacy that there was something more meaningful out there for you. And then you used your self-determination to build a career around that. And that's wonderful.

Gast 3And I have no doubt that it will work.

Gast 1I don't have any doubt either. And I can't wait to go climb a mountain with you.

Torsten J. KoertingAnd you asked this very important question that Stacey introduced to us. It's about would you live this life over and over again? And you said the immediate answer was no. Yeah. Back then, it was no. So, there's still one loop open, Nicola. And this will show Stacey that, you know, his impulses are that they become a seed in your life that's growing. What has been on the other side of your ladder, Nicola?

Gast 3Back then, you mean?

Torsten J. KoertingYeah. When you made the decision 10 years ago to quit your job and to start something completely new and turn around 180 degrees. What has been on the other side of the ladder that made you cross the crevasse?

Gast 3The meaningfulness. The meaningfulness in life.

Torsten J. KoertingThere you go. A role model for the principal Stacey just shared. Thanks for sharing, Nicola. Thank you very much. And see you later. See you later. So, there are two more people and I am sure for some of us, there is still a loop open, Stacey. A loop that we uncovered the question that will drive a change in life, right? And we all realize that it's not too late. And we uncovered the approach how to define or identify the four Ps that might drive you and let you thrive to go across that ladder. And the guy that I'm calling up right now, he raised a question in the chat that is still an open loop related to the 100 list. And he's somebody that I got to know, I don't know, 10 years ago. He's been on a conference. They've been a couple, two boys thriving for something to make the world a better place, to build their own startup. And they have been so enthusiastic. And he still is. And that's the reason why he's here tonight. So, Georg, welcome on the stage. And please ask you a question.

Torsten J. KoertingYou need to go de-mute. There you go. Stacey, my question is, well, how do you, what's your tool to find the right things for your list? What can be the tools which I can use to find the right things for my list?

Gast 2So, you know, everyone's list is going to be different to some degree. Like I said, start with one thing. But this is a list that I want you to consider things that answer the questions like, what do I want to learn? What do I want to be better at? Are there people I want to meet in my life? Are there places I want to go? Things that I want to accomplish? But the tool is more of making sure that whatever you put on this list, and I've already mentioned one of the things, make sure that you've identified at least some of your core values. You know, what would you cross the ladder for? Because as you put something on the list, you have to make sure that it is not going to deviate you from that particular core value. You know, you may want to start a new business, but if honesty is a value that you cherish, doing it dishonestly is not going to help you to thrive, even if you get across that ladder. So that would be one part of that tool as you're filling out the answer to the question, is don't put anything on your list that conflicts with your core values.

Gast 2A second thing that I want you to think about, you've lived probably a fairly accomplished life to this point. So you can put things on your list that you've already done, that have helped you to come to this point in your life. So it can be retroactive. And the nice thing about it is you can write it down on your list, and you can check it off at the same time. And even though that might sound trivial, it actually is very uplifting to know that you have lived a life that actually, yeah, there are signs that I'm thriving. Because I'm able to write it down and check it off. Another thing that I ask people to consider as they're making this list is once you put something on the list, you cannot take it off the list. If it belongs on that list today, it will also belong on that list 50 years from now. Because it is part of your journey. Now, you may never have the opportunity to check it off. So I want you to know that the objective of creating your list to thrive is not necessarily that you have to live your life long enough to check it all off. This is, remember, like a journey map that's helping you to check off the waypoints as you go and living a life to thrive. But what that tends to do is if you know, if I put it on this list, I can't take it off. It makes you very thoughtful about what you're putting on the list.

Gast 2I've seen some people who have taken this idea of creating a list to thrive. And I'm, you know, I didn't invent that idea. There's other people, obviously, who have a version of it. Sometimes I can see that what they're just putting down is just anything that comes to their mind that at the moment just seems like it's a good thing to do. Like they saw something on TV or they read about something and then they're just thinking, oh, yeah, I would love to do that, too. And they'll put it down. And I look at that item, trying not to be judgmental, but I just wonder, you know, is, you know, what was the story behind putting on that list? Because what I have found is that the things that are on my list of 100, there's a story behind it. And that story defines who I am. And if my grandchildren ever get a hold of the list and they see it and they go, I wonder what grandpa was thinking when he put this thing that he wanted to climb Everest. How crazy is that? I want them to know that there was a story for why it was on there. And that journey to get to Everest and climb it, unlike Martin, I did not summit because I was guiding a climber who we were hoping at the time would be the oldest summiteer of Everest. And we made it as far as the South Summit, which is about 320 vertical feet from the summit top. The only obstacle between where we were and the summit was a vertical ice cliff with some rock in it called the Hillary Step. And the Sherpas had been ahead of us, had already fixed the line, and they were actually on the summit slope going for the summit. But because we had taken so long to get to that point with this gentleman, and we were worried about there's a rule of thumb on Everest that at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, you have to seriously think about no matter where you are turning around and going back.

Gast 2We were close to that. We were close to that turnaround time. So we made the decision to turn around and go back. It was a hard decision to make, but I think it was a wise one for us to make at the time. So I want my posterity to know that story. And so I guess what I'm suggesting to you is be thoughtful about what you put on your list because it will define who you are. So. Thank you very much. And then, of course, the last thing is go out and live the list.

Torsten J. KoertingAnd stop. Probably one of the decisions we are going to hear later on. Thank you, Georg. The question answered? Yes, fully answered. Thank you very much. Thanks for that great question. And thanks for that awesome and delightful answer. We're taking two more questions because otherwise it could go on like this forever, I assume. You've got so much to say, the two of you. Hey, das war der zweite Teil des Experten Calls mit Martin und Stacey. Und in zwei Tagen, da kommt der letzte, der dritte Teil. Freu dich drauf. Bis dahin.