Deep Dive mit Torsten Koerting — Folge 074
Karma Sherpa - Über das bewegte Leben eines Sherpas, spannende Abenteuer und Demut
2021-05-07

Automatisch transkribiert (whisper.cpp, large-v3-turbo). Nicht redigiert — Fehler sind möglich.
Sprecher automatisch getrennt (pyannote). Gäste sind nicht namentlich zugeordnet.
Laut Folgentitel zu Gast: Karma Sherpa
Quelle: https://torstenkoerting.com/podcast/074-karma-sherpa-ueber-das-bewegte-leben-eines-sherpas-spannende-abenteuer-und

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Torsten J. Koerting: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu dieser neuen Folge des Umsetzungsgiganten-Podcasts und heute mit einem Menschen, der zu einer ganz besonderen Gruppe von Menschen gehört, denn er ist Sherpa in Kathmandu, er ist Sherpa im Himalaya und er ist Sherpa für Menschen, die auf den Mount Everest steigen möchten. Und er selbst war, und das ist spannend, denn er wusste es gar nicht mehr genau, sechs bis sieben Mal mittlerweile auf dem Gipfel des Mount Everest. Und was mich an ihm so fasziniert hat, als ich begonnen habe, ihm zu folgen auf Facebook und in anderen sozialen Medien, mit welcher Leidenschaft, mit welcher Hingabe und mit welcher Demut er die Menschen nicht nur auf den Mount Everest führt, sondern in die ganz besonderen Regionen des Himalaya-Gebirges. Und so bin ich mit ihm in Kontakt getreten, er hat sofort zugesagt zu diesem Interview, was du gleich und was ihr gleich hören dürft. Und das, was sich da aufgetan hat, ist eine Welt, die mir auch bisher unbekannt geblieben ist. Und die Fragen, die gehen natürlich in die Richtung, wie so jemand überhaupt dazu kommt, mit knapp über 40 Jahren schon sechs bis sieben Mal auf dem Everest gewesen zu sein. Und was ihn antreibt, Menschen in diese Regionen, in diese unwirtliche und tödlichen Regionen zu führen. Und wie er überhaupt dazu gekommen ist, Menschen in dieser Form zu begleiten. Wir schauen also hinein in seinen Antrieb, wir schauen rein in seine Passion und Leidenschaft, die ihn hat zu dem Menschen werden lassen, den ihr gleich erleben dürft. Wir schauen drauf, wie er als junger Mann oder als kleiner Junge sich diesen Expeditionen angeschlossen hat, um als Helfer zu lernen, um erstmal der englischen Sprache mächtig zu werden. Dann hat er sich weiterentwickelt und wurde Koch und hat in den unterschiedlichen Basecamps der Himalaya-Region Menschen bekocht, um dann das erste Mal auch Verantwortung für Kunden zu übernehmen, dann auf die Höhen von 6.000 und 7.000 Metern aufzusteigen, bis hin dazu, dass es ihm vergönnt gewesen ist und er in der Lage gewesen ist, sechs bis sieben Mal Kunden auf den Mount Everest zu führen. Wir überprüfen und hinterfragen natürlich, was es ist und was es bedeutet, den Mount Everest zu besteigen. Wir schauen rauf, wie der Everest und die gesamte Tourismus in diesen Regionen sich über die letzten Jahre verändert hat. Und sowohl durch die Pandemie als auch durch die Lawine, was das mit dem Berg gemacht hat, was das mit den Menschen, die in diesen Regionen leben, gemacht hat. Und wir schauen natürlich auch drauf, was das letzte Jahr und wie das letzte Jahr für ihn gewesen ist und wie er dieses Jahr nun durchlebt hat und auch überlebt hat ohne die Touristen, die normalerweise in diese Gebiete dieser Welt fahren. Freut euch auf ein spannendes Interview, freut euch auf einen sehr demütig und aus der inneren Leidenschaft angetriebenen Menschen und lasst euch ein auf die Geschichten, die ihr uns fern aus dem fernen Kathmandu in Nepal zu erzählen hat. Viel Spaß und nun begrüßt recht herzlich mit mir Karma Sherpa.

Torsten J. Koerting: Umsetzungsgiganten

Gast 1: Und in that Perseverance, I found new levels of strength.

Gast 2: Und dann habe ich angefangen, das zu machen.

Torsten J. Koerting: Wehigkeit weitergeben zu dürfen. Aber es hat was mit Geduldigsein zu tun. Also zu erfahren, was denn die jungen Menschen bewegt.

Gast 1: You're going to make me think with these questions. It's wonderful.

Gast 2: Karma Sherpa, it's great to have you in the show. Welcome and great to have you here.

Gast 1: Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you.

Gast 2: Karma, you are an inspirational source for a long time already for myself. And you're an inspirational source on Facebook and other medias out there. And you inspire people about your country, about your region, where you come from. And it's great to have you to ask you some questions. Karma, how I always start my interviews is, let's assume we would meet somewhere in nature in a hut. Whether it's in the Alps, whether it's in the Nepal region. You have climbed that hut from one side, I came from the other side. And we sit at the table in that hut. And we get to know each other. And I ask you the question, Karma, who are you? What do you do? Tell me something about you. What would be your answer, Karma?

Gast 1: My name is Karma Sherpa. I'm originally come from Everest region. I born there like 45 years ago. So after all, you know, so I moved here like around like 20 years before. But before that, I begin my journey. So when I was like 14 years, I want to look like exactly. I post 10 pictures, but it's long, long years ago. But like, you know, so when I was in 14 years, I want to look like to find a job or to get the tracking. Because I heard a lot of time about like American and European and like, let's say, about the white people. So I've never seen the white people in my life because we live in countryside. So people think probably Europe, like Nepal is everywhere. People everywhere are tracking. But I'm not tracking like regions. So I'm from the power, from the remote area. So first, I went to look like to get to find, to see the first, to see the foreign people. And second, to get to find a job and how we can get.

Gast 1: So, like, checking job or like, because I, in my, where I born is like, what, in 3,000 meters. I could see the mountain, but, you know, we have a lot of snow, but I never climbed like mountain, like, before 13 years, 13 years. So, you know, I want to experience, I want to see the white people, how they look like, how they look like, how they look like, everything. So, and then, when I reached, so it takes, like, two days' work from my place to Lugla, walking, not drive. So when I reached here, I see that the plane is landing there. And then, so, so then I see one white guy, probably he's from America, because I, I heard a lot of time, war between Iraq and Kuwait. That time, I think America helped Kuwait. So I heard a lot of time about America. So then I talked with this car, and then, so I, I speak very little English that time. And then, like, you know, I, I, I think I would, I would, I would, I would, I would trek with him, like, like, two days. So that, that's my post, you know, that I stayed to the trekking, and I, it was really hard, because the communication, and he looks, I'm very young with the poor, with the poor clothes and everything. So, so that, that's how I started my job, so, yeah.

Gast 2: So you became somebody that is supporting and helping others to, to reach their vision, yeah, to climb the mountain, to get access to an area, which, especially for the Europeans, of course, for many others out there, is very remote, and for some, of course, dangerous. So you helped them to, to step into another world. And you started, when you were 13, you were born on 3,000 meter elevation. And how did it all start? You had, you just explained and described the first moment when you had your first tour. So, so, so, so, so then after, like, the trekking is one decision that we don't have, like, you know, the year, all year trekking.

Gast 1: So, like, after I finished this trip, this was my first trip, this was my first trip with the American, Western people, and the new experience, everything. Then I, I think I went back to my, my home, my place, and I've explored everything, what I see, what I did, what I learned. Then I learned that time, every day, like, it was like, now I'm 45, that means, like, now, like, almost, like, 32 years ago. Then I learned my place to meet family, and I explained everything. I went to become more, like, the personal way, like, guiding everything. So, for that, so, I had to learn more English and, like, the most of other skills. But we don't have opportunity, we don't have, like, training center in our place. So, so then, then after, again, and I asked my parents, so I had to go back, I got to look like, to work on. So, then after, next time, I went again, but that time, so I met some, like, our friend from our region. They already do, like, guiding job there. So, like, you know, the, then after, like, they invite me, also, the carrying load, like, around, you know, the port in Nepal, at a particular load. We carried, like, around two, two, three weeks, trekking we did around Everest region. Then after, after a few years, like, you know, the, I work there, like, every time, up and down, Belize Dukla, and Belize Dukla, but things, not much change. So, I had to become more professional way. So, then after, I decided to come to Kathmandu, because in Kathmandu, there is opportunity. Obviously, also difficulties, also, there is also opportunity. So, then after, after a few years, like, I moved in Kathmandu, so, and here, again, also, and luckily, I met my uncle. So, he invited us for the trip with him, supporting with him. We were trekking to Lantan, which is, like, around, like, 30 years ago, 28 years ago, so, with the two British couple, and so, I was, I was so close with them, so, I tried to learn, because they're English British, so, I tried to learn English, and, um, um, so, other job, but, after, also, you know, what they, when, when he see my, you know, the, like, I like to talk with him, and they, obviously, they, they, after all, they, they held for my English course, and then, so, they, they paid, like, around three, three months, course, my English course in Kathmandu, then, which is big things for me. So, you know, that, I, I, I get opportunity to go to Lego Center, I learned there, and then, after, after all, so, also, like, step by step, and after, like, I become, like, cooking food for the Western, I'm not a professional cook, like, in the restaurant, but in the trekking, what do we do in, in all, camping take, we need a guide, assistant guide, cook, kitchen, order, everything. So, like, I, I, that time, my, my goal is to become the guide, uh, cook, trekking cook, so, I work, like, I did a small training in Kathmandu again, and I, I worked, like, around, five, six years in, in some company for the, for the, for the trekking. So, then, I like to talk more with the people, but because the cook job is all the time, you're inside the kitchen, so, I like, I like to talk more, with the more people, I like to go outside, but, again, I changed, so, I had to become trekking guide. So, I did a training, from, like, from, like, from, like, government office, like, we have, it's called Natham, um, and then, Minister of Tourism, they do some course every year, I did there, and then, I start my guiding job, you know, I think, 19, I don't, 19, 19, 19, 19, so, then, after, checking job was to just work with the, with the people, and then, I like to move, like, climbing skill, like, 6,000 meter, 7,000 meter, I like to move, climb, so, then, slowly, I, I did, like, basic mountaineering course in 1999, so, then, after, my process, so, then, after, I, I went to climb, Merope, which is, uh, 6,400 meter, so, then, slowly, all, every, from, 2,000 is, completely, I start my climbing, to, all, like, 8,000 meter, everything, that's, I think, that's, my, first step is, I start from, 2000.

Gast 2: So, as you describe your journey, you started as a 13-year-old, because you were keen to, to get to know, to, to the white people, to, um, see the mountains, that you have heard of, because you don't see them, where, where, where you lived, you learned English, to do so, you learned cooking, you became a guide, and, um, from, from becoming the guide, you climbed higher mountains, yes, looking at, looking at, looking at that phase of life, till, 2000, till you became that guide, and climbed the first, 6,000 to 7,000, uh, meter, mountains, how would you describe that journey, is that, already, like, something, in, in real life, climbing from 2,000 to 6,000 meters, because you also climbed mountains, in your personal life, by obtaining the skills, by taking trainings, things, how would you describe that phase of life, that you've just described?

Gast 1: Um, you know, sometimes, like, for, for us, we, we, we, we, for, first, first, first, we, we, we, born in, like, mountain, like, 3,000 meters, so, for the walking, it's not a problem, like, we jump, from one tree to another tree, we climb, like, for rock climbing, and, and, without rope, and anything, so, and, when, when you, when you, when you, I, looked, all these things, like, you know, it's, um, um, I, I, I, I, I, first, I, beginning, like, 6,000, in 2001, then, after, like, I start, 7,000, 8,000, every, all these things, you know, that I did, so many times, like, oh, there's 8,000, as well, but, uh, this is, uh, absolutely, sometimes, like, people say, the school is more, academic, qualification, but, like, sometimes, how I learn from the, my childhood, everything, which is, which is, which is really, you know, the, um, really, really great, for me, to, you know, the, uh, experience, the learning experience, step-by-step, because I never get to go to the opportunity to go to school. I hired to go to school three years, four years, even in countryside, my village. So it means that what I learned, everything is from the experience, from the world, from the people, from the sea people.

Gast 1: So that's wonderful. And also that sometimes I think what I choose, my job is absolutely, I choose the right job. Obviously, this is also difficulty, challenging. But like when you go to, obviously, like when I go to Everest sometime, like in 2008, when I was in Everest, one Omani guy almost died. So that time I feel so sad, obviously, because it's a really hard time. But also like on the side, you get those opportunities to see really wonderful people from around the world. Sometime, sometime like year 2018, I was trekking in Everest Base Camp with a bunch of group, around 30 people. They're from seven different countries. Some of the people, I never heard their country then. So I think that's a wonderful, like, wonderful things to do. This job is like you see a lot of different people, different background people, different knowledge people from around the world, everywhere. So, yeah, it's really, really nice. Yeah, it's great.

Gast 2: Going back to the time when you were 13, striving to learn English, becoming a cook, becoming a guide, and guiding the first groups throughout the different regions. What was the driving force, Karma? What was your inner motivation at that point in time that has led to that inner growth that you've just described?

Gast 1: I think that time, I love to do always something different. I know some of our cousins, they're doing climbing and mountaineering, but my father is a carpenter, my other brother is, like, farmer, and my old uncle is a carpenter. They do a different job, but I like to do a different one. And then also, I see, that time we didn't have television, but I often listened to the radio, BBC or other local radio. So that time, sometimes, we can't hear that this much people climb Everest, this much people do this mountain, and then also, a few people from our region, they do mountaineering guide, and then one day back, we live from Kathmandu with the heavy big bag, oh, I have to be like this. I think that's motivated to give me that I've, like, come to this level. And on the other hand, like, you know, I used to listen to the radio. That time, I heard a lot about America and Europe, obviously, about Germany. So I want to see, and it works also them.

Gast 1: So that's, I think, but the first, I think motivation is, for me, it's like the guy who worked in that time, so they, when they're back from checking, you know, expedition with the big, huge rucksack, and they relays, they look different. So, wow, I want to be like this. so that's, I think that's given me motivation to, like, do all these things.

Gast 2: So to learn, to get to know the people, as well as to have them as role models for you to grow.

Gast 1: Yeah.

Gast 2: How has that motivated, motivation shifted over time? Looking now, you're now 45, you've climbed some of the highest mountains in the world, and leading people towards that, towards their vision and their challenges. How has your motivation changed over time?

Gast 1: Well, it's absolutely, I think, it changed better than I thought and 200%, 200% better than I thought because, obviously, there is a lot of challenge, a lot of difficulties because now, everywhere, a lot of competition, even in, like, now, nowadays, a lot of companies start, a lot of job opportunity, but when we started, like, job, that time, few companies, there is no internet connection, there is internet, but not like now. So it's difficult to get behind the job, so, you know, so, but for us, it's very lucky, so we get really, you know, the good connection everywhere, even in local people, even in foreign, everywhere, so that, that's, you know, the, big change for me, so, like, starting 13 years, went to go to Lugla, tried to talk with Americans, so he don't understand what I'm trying to tell and I don't understand he's tripping and then nowadays, see it after, like, 32 years, well, I'm talking right now with you, it being, imagine, I'm interviewing from, you know, the Kathmandu, my home, to, you know, the Germany, it's absolutely, you know, the huge change and it also, like, not only this, also, like, in my, my life, um, I get opportunity, obviously, the first vision is I try, I like to climb 8,000 meter, I did, it was, like, 5 or 6 time and then, also, a lot of other 8,000 meter, like, more, 200, 6,000 meter and also, like, I like to see the foreign country, which is, you know, also, absolutely, I've been in, almost, like, I've been in Germany, Frankfurt, like, from some part of, like, most of the part of Europe,

Gast 1: and, yeah, that's, if I look, all these things, and I also, like, social, we do also, social, social work, like, I built a small clinic in my place, it's not a small, but it's like, help us, so, if I look, all these things, I think, yeah, absolutely, and a big change, yeah, so, 13 to 45, so, yeah,

Gast 2: when you, again, look back, over the last, 32 years, you're right now, 45, yeah, you started, as, a 13 year old, that wanted, to learn, from the people, that wanted, to get known, to other cultures, to other, to other individuals, to learn from them, to now, becoming, Kama Sherpa, 45 years old, that has climbed Everest, six to seven times, and helped others, to achieve their vision, starting from somebody, that has, that has grown up, in some remote area, becoming, somebody, that is helping others, to achieve their vision, and to have a different, perspective on life, what, what, what is a key learning, out of, out of your personal journey, that could become, a message, to others, that are struggling, in their lives, and, that want to get, out of, a miserable place, or, coming out of, a place, where, they say, look, yeah, this might be, a little bit too big, to achieve, what's, what's one of the key learnings, that you take, out of those 35 years, where you have strived, where you have grown, and where you've become, the person, that we have now, here in this podcast interview,

Gast 1: I think, the biggest, thing is my life, I think the passion, passion, so, nowadays, young people, like, you know, they want to do, they want to try, but they want immediately, everything, it's not possible, so we need to passion, when you do, if you want to do something, in your life, so, you have to keep trying, more hard work, and you have to be passionate, so, you can't achieve, with the light, you know, see, I try, like, years, and years, so, to become a guide, and climb to this level, so, from my experience, I think, if I, change my job, or my thing, like, meet my age, I think, I never can get this position, so, I think, the passion is, and hard working, and keep trying, I think, big, big thing for my life, yeah.

Gast 2: Mm-hmm. hard working, yeah, you mentioned.

Gast 1: So, you have to try, and, like, you know, like, as I told you, the young people nowadays, they don't want to have work, but the reason, they want to create, immediately, but, I think, but, this is, now, it's like, different technology, different, like, you know, that we are, like, 24th century, but it's still, I think, like, that we need, like, climbing mountain, so, sometimes, you go to the mountain, because it's always natural, it's big, so, sometimes, people think they're, the human things, they're big, but it's not true, so, if you are, sometimes, people coming, like, to climb one mountain, three, four times, so, sometimes, there are personal problems, sometimes, weather problems, sometimes, you know, any natural disaster, so, so, we never, can get success, one time,

so,

Gast 1: we have to try more, so, that's why, we need to, we need to wait, we need to keep trying, or we need to passion, so, if you don't do passion, I think, like, some people come, want to climb this mountain, in one time, in their life, but if they want to try, within one shot, sometimes, it's not possible, so, support that, so, also, like, passion, hard work, keep trying, is, man, things for me, yeah.

Gast 2: This is amazing, what you've, what you've just said, and the, the metaphor, and the analogy, climbing a mountain, and especially, you know, if you climb, a mountain here, in Europe, let's, take a usual, an average mountain, whether it's, still a high one, which is, the Zugspitze, or some other, mountains, you, usually, you climb it, or you hike it up, the first attempt, yeah, so, you've got that success, yeah, if there are higher mountains, and, you've put this, into a, a greater context, which I really love, higher mountains, that, maybe are bigger, than yourself, a mountain, where, the, the weather, the conditions,

some,

Gast 2: your, your personal fitness, whatever, yeah, might become a risk, that on that day, it might not be possible, and, you might need to come back, the next year, or even later, is, a, a great analogy, to, a real life, because sometimes, you're not able to achieve, a goal, or, an outcome, or your personal vision, in one attempt,

Gast 1: yeah, within one time, so, you know, yeah, with that, you're the passion, or you have to, try again,

Gast 2: try again, and it's,

Gast 1: yeah,

Gast 2: take us a little bit, you, you've climbed Everest, six or seven times, and of course, Everest, even if it's, maybe, you might have a different perspective, on that mountain already, and we'll come to that, in a second, is still, of course, the mountain, for, for many climbers, for, for many people out there, Everest, I think it's got a, 99% of the world's population, does know, that there is, a Mount Everest, what, what, what, what is it, climbing Everest, and how, how was your, your first experience, when you climbed it, the first time, what made it so, and, and what, what made it so special, for you, so maybe, just take us in, what it, what it's about, climbing Everest,

Gast 1: um, for me, it's like, you know, because it's, I think, not only for me, for all the people, because it's, top of the world,

and,

Gast 1: it's, top point on the earth, so, everybody want to be, one time in their life, before they die, for me, also, same, same thing, because, from our region, a lot of Sherpa, they climbed, Mount Everest, and, obviously, because this is their job, also, um, but also, like, for me, is, anyhow, if, happened, I want to become the guide, but it did not happen, if I, even, even when I was children, I want to climb one time, when the reality comes true, so, like, obviously, I have a lot of climbing background, I have a lot of knowledge, I did all, like, basic, all climbing, advanced climbing course, everything, technically, I know, how to climb, but, like, obviously, you are going, also, new places, so, um, for us, as a Sherpa, um, before climbing, we have to do so many times, Everest, like, the base camp is, like, houses, post-temp, from Katmandu to Lugla, and up to trekking, seven days trekking, and then, we have, we set the base camp, like, um, separate kitchen, separate dining, nowadays, it's commercial expedition, um, the shower, wine, bakery, everything, there, base camp, base camp likes foam, so far, the real journey, start from base camp, um, um, so, for me, it's, like, what we have to do, our job is probably, you know, so, we have to carry everything, from, what we need, from above base camp, till summit, till base camp, we don't carry, all the animals, or the porter, they bring deer, but from base camp, like, gas, food, oxygen, all this, like, fuel, everything we have to carry up, from, you know, the, you know, most dangerous fire, combo ice ball, which is, like, big, huge, like, you know, the, ice charade, remember, you've seen the movie, so, it can move, anytime, so, that's the way, we always, like, start, like, midnight, like, two o'clock, midnight, wake up, brush, tea, or whatever, hot drinks, and then, something like, little snack, and try to go up, as much as, quickly, we have to pass, like, the, in, when you climb, every most difficult battle, between camp one, and base camp, which is, we have to cross, before the ice, so, for us, it's like, you know, the way, before climb, we have to do, so many times, up and down, like, let's say, base camp two, camp one, is like, we have to do, like, 10, 12 times, because we have to, supply everything, so, then, after, from, camp two, to camp four, is camp three, obviously, camp three, we have to set everything, and, camp two, to camp four, we have to do, two or three times, because we have to, supply 10, we have to, supply, oxygen, for the old, you know, the whole team, so, that, that makes, more easy for us, because, like, when you, used to go up and down, obviously, you're well agalmatized, and also, you know, all these trails, so, what is it to be cold, what happens, so, where you have to, take care, so, all this, like, may be, easier till south cold, but, still, but, from above the south cold, above the 8,000, is, it's all dead zone, so, you most care, you have to, you know, the gear, you, and, your client is, obviously, everywhere, but, like, more, above the 8,000, which is, like, obviously, you have to carry, your oxygen, pools, for your customer, and, imagine, a snack, and, drinks, like, water, almost, like, 20, 24 kg, so, you have to carry,

Gast 1: and, you have to take, your oxygen, you have to take, your customer oxygen, all the things, but, also,

like,

Gast 1: you know, that, so, but, so, that, that's all, like, you know, the, till 8,000, like, scam pool, that, that makes, more easy for us, you know, the, how to deal people, when we are, when we are with the load, it doesn't matter, but, when we have, with the customer, you have to really calculate, so, that, that's, you know, the, before, summit plan, we have to do, like, many times, up and down, that gives more knowledge, like, more skill, and everything, so, that, that's how we, how we did, and, and, for me, it's like, when I, get, first time, in top, obviously, I get, I mean, emotion, because it's first time, for me, also, and then, so, so, when I look, from Tibet side, but Tibet, I've been many times, it's one of the, Tibet side, you can see some land, flat land, and some light, but from Nepal, it's like, all cloud, everything, you can't see anything, you can't see anything, sometimes, like, other journalists, they ask, you know, the question, what do you see from Everest? Clouds. Yeah, we see Katmandu, we see America, sometimes, just make sure, yeah, that, that's, how we did, and how we do in Everest, yeah,

yeah,

Gast 2: and I think, another great analogy, is to real life, where you sometimes have, you have to climb up, climb back down, so you go one step, or two steps forward, and you go one step back, and you acclimatize, you learn new skills, to be able to, to reach summit, one day, or on that specific day, let's dive in again to, you just mentioned it briefly, what, what was it for you, climbing Everest, and, not being helped, but still helping others, and supporting clients, and customers, how was it for you, climbing Everest, the first time, being the, you know, the respect that you might have had, for that mountain, the spiritual energy, that flows into that mountain, and comes back from that mountain, being on top of it, take us on that journey, when, when, when you did it the first time, and what it meant to you,

Gast 1: um, it, it, it's, um, obviously, um, past time is like, past time also, I, I did with the customer, past time, I, I was with the American, American guy, he's, that is scary, so, past time is, with the, with the customer, but also like, you know, for me, also like, it's, it's, it's one of the, like, happiest things, like, because like, you know, sometimes, for us also doubting, is like, maybe, whether my, don't give permission, maybe sometime, but, um, like, when I, when I, did the past time, this is also like, you know, for me also, absolutely, it's, emotionally, everything, um, really, that's, for me, because like, I, I wish to do, long time, long time ago, this, this, um, like, obviously, every, a thousand meters, so, you know, and, as, as a, for, guide, I think, yeah, that's, that's, that's like, the climbing yourself, and guiding other people, is like, obviously, it's a bit different, but also, for, but overall, I think the climbing, to summit is like, you know, the same, yeah.

Gast 2: Mm-hmm. So, what, what did it, what did it mean for you? What did it, what, how it changed your life, when you first climbed, the highest mountain, on earth?

Gast 1: Um, yeah, it, it changed a bit, not much, because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a personal guide, like, I did so many other mountain, but obviously, when I do Everest, people think, because, wow, you did Everest, because like, whenever you go, you know, the people ask, have you been Everest? So, yeah, obviously, then I'm, yeah, I said, like, we did, and also, like, obviously, like, I think, when I do Everest, and then what happens, so like, in Nepal, it's like, all the, even in other country, like, Western company, they ask, have you been, if I, if I'm looking some job, they always look experience, obviously, and if I ask some company to, for expedition group, so they ask, have you done this before? Have you done this before? Yeah, okay, so, so that's, that's changed a bit, and obviously, and, and not for the business way, but sometimes, like, my friend, they try to send, like, you know, the, um, the brand, to, you know, the, you know, the, for advertising, the Everest, obviously, which is good for me, also, because, like, they, they do, be to advertise, for me, also, whatever, like, America, like, country, so, that, that's way,

Gast 1: yeah, yeah, that, that's changed, to, you know, when I did Everest, after Everest, yeah, even in, like, we, we start, audition for the building, clinic in my place, so, that time also, like, you know, the, I was trying to, like, try to collect some pound, like, charity climbing, but, again, I was working with someone, so, I'm, I'm taking the customer as well, and it was, like, try to, try to raise some money as well, but, all these things, like, you know, that when you, obviously, when you did first time, you don't have that much knowledge, but, like, after when you do second time, obviously, you get some knowledge, and how to get people, sometimes, people lose, it's little sponsors, so, that, that's all things change, you obviously, from Everest, and, if I look, other Western people, so, I think, they have a complete, goal plan, so, when they're coming with a goal plan, yes, so, I want to find Everest, then, after my business go here, my staff go there, some, if there were some company, obviously, they get permission, promotion, and their job,

Gast 1: or, like, if you become first ever, a submitter, from your state, or from your country, obviously, you get a big sponsor, or, if you start your business, because, it happened with my Indian career, and, also, it happened like, Egyptian, or other, other country, but, you know, that's depending, their personal experience, or whatever you call it.

Gast 2: That's amazing, Karma, thanks for, for taking us, into that, into that journey, and how you perceive, Everest, for, just seeing as a mountain, which, of course, had a major change, in your life, especially when it comes to, the, the, the point of reference, for you, becoming the, the, the knowledgeable, and experienced guide, if you look at, you've climbed it, six or seven times, and of course, there is, like, like a time span, when did you climb it, the first time, and the last time, Karma?

Gast 1: First time, I did, 2007, and then last time, I did, like, 2016, probably, I think, yeah, so, so, yeah.

Gast 2: how has, the Everest region, as well as, the mindset, of the people, coming to Everest, and, their motivation, how has that, all changed, over that period, over those, nine years?

Gast 1: Like, you, you means, like, people, or mountain, or myself?

Gast 2: When we, when we look into, the press, the, the newspapers, as well as, the, the stories, that are being shared, when it comes to Everest, and, especially, we, we have, Reinhold Messner, who, of course, is looking back, at times, when he climbed it, the first time, without oxygen, and how, the whole region, has changed, there are, a thousand people, in base camp, we see pictures, where people, are lining up, at Hillary's step, where there is, traffic, traffic, let's call it, traffic jam, there was this one, very, yeah, how do you say, great photo, I think it was from last year, or the year before, where there were like, literally, 100 or 200 people, on the mountain, in a specific area, blocking their ways, coming, people coming down, others coming back up, going back 2007, where there probably, wasn't that much of a hike, a hype, yeah, for Everest, there was still lots of people, but probably less than today, the rubbish, on the mountain, so my question is, you know, how has that, in your perspective, climbing it the first time, 2007, climbing it, the last time, 2016, which I guess, was one year, after the avalanche, I think, it was 2015, which killed a couple of people, in base camp, how do you, how do you see that, that, that the region, that the people, that come to the mountain, that pay, up to 100,000 euros, to be helped by guys like you, to climb that mountain, how has that all changed, and what's your, your perspective, on that change,

Gast 1: yeah, it's, you know, the looks, obviously, as you're saying, around 2000, 2005, or 2006, 2007, there is less number, comparing nowadays, also, obviously, when there is a, less number, less problem, less garbage, everything is, like less, and everything is good, even like, for the nature, but now, when I go to, ever since 2017, like, you know, they have a more, group, obviously, more commercial, the company, you know, that who organized, their team, they try to show, better service, for each other, like, look, we have a best service, best food, best shower, best bakery, yak sizzler there, and everything, like Western restaurant, is this kind of like, you know, like, Kashmandu, or whatever, you know, the like restaurant, summer restaurant, and I think, yeah, that, that's the reason, maybe, so that, and I'm also like, you know, the climate, looking, about the climbing chains, like, you know, the, within 10 years, we see huge chains, even in base camp, when you go to, obviously, from the trekking, we go there every year, because we can see the base camp, eyes, so close from the Gorak ship, but, like, within like, 10, 15 years, 20 years, now, it's like, ice is moving, more further, more further, and I also, when we are in camp 2, camp 3, you can see the more garbage,

Gast 1: because, what happens, so, normally, all the guys, all the companies, must bring all the rubbish, back to the base camp, from camp 1, camp 2, camp 3, but some people, some group, garbage, they just drop in purposes, or they dig ice, they just hide ice, like rubbish there, within 2 years, after 5, 6 years, we see plastic, a can, or other things, I think, because the snow is melting, because the climate, global warming, it's also like, I think, when there is more people, more human, obviously, it's intact, everything, so, that's, I think, also, other hand, it's like, I think, not only Nepal, is getting benefit, from this Everest excretion, you see a lot of Western people, German, there is like, new company, any global, or other, I know, new company, American, British, other European company, they do a lot of advertising, about the Everest, obviously, this is also part of the business, so, they earn also a lot of money, from the Everest, so, that's the reason, also, I think, now, the number of people, is increasing, climbing Everest, and other 8,000 meters,

Gast 1: and, so, that's why, yeah, I see the more people, there, it's changing,

Gast 2: you've spoken about, the change, in the environment, the garbage, that now comes, to the surface, because of the ice, is melting, so garbage, that is probably, a couple of years, or even decades old, how have the people, changed, that come to the mountain, is it, a different group of people, different type of people, and how has, their mindset, changed, when you look at, the people coming, to the mountain, 2007, when you climbed it, the first time, to the people, that maybe, 2015, came to that mountain, is it, a different driving force, a different, a different goal, that they would like to achieve, by climbing that mountain, has that changed, over those, over that decade,

Gast 1: not really, obviously there, you know, the, not much, change, I think, that people are, because the 10 years, is not much time, so, looks like, all similar, but like, mostly, you see, the different background, like, nowadays, even like, from India, India is like, for the mountain, they are not really, you know, at a high level, but now, even from India, they do, they come for, big, big groups sometimes, for the climbing, and also obviously, other country, but I think, yeah, that's, the thing is, mostly, the goal is almost, same thing, but like, there's, few people, they come like, for different region, because sometimes, someone climb like, difficult route, slow climb, there's someone to do like, iski, you know, except that, I think that people just, you know, come there like, you know, they just want to be there, and Everest, talk about that, yeah.

Gast 2: looking, looking at, at Everest, Everest, I'm sure, is a mountain that, that, that there is business, but, looking at, at Nepal, as a country, looking at the Himalayan, at, at the region, I'm sure that there, you have a different perspective, and, tell us, what, what is Nepal about, and, if you would be free, what kind of mountains, what kind of regions, would you love to, see being explored, where you would guide people through, because it's, far more, let's say, rewarding, or, which creates, this different perspectives, on ourselves, than, just climbing the highest mountain, in the world.

Gast 1: yeah, that, that's, you're right, so, you know, the, my, I, I would like to, all the time, not only climbing Everest, there is also some, really beautiful mountain, in Nepal, around, around Nepal, so, so, what I, like to do now, is like, I try to retire from 8,000 meter, more like,

you know,

Gast 1: so, and, just to give, like, as if you're talking, like, motivation for the young people, and, and, so, sometimes, we go to college, and talk with the young people, to motivate more for the adventures, to how, in the trekking, so, you know, the motivator to do trekking, hiking, climbing, and, and also, for me, it's like, you know, not, not only like, to do like, all the time, Everest base camp, on a corner base camp, climbing Everest, but also, there is like, I want to do like, complete like, new burgeon trekking, so, at the moment, so, I don't have to trip, maybe, I might try to go after one month, to find the new trekking route, like, you know, the bear, like, some reason, people still, they've never been there, and also, climbing, for the climbing, like, I like to do, also like, around 6,000, burgeon peak, people who never climb, um, that, that's two vision, my problem, you know, the, and, and, and, and, and upcoming days, so, and several, few years ago, we did one, on the climbing peak, just, just, on the border, between Nepal and Tibet, so, other side is Tibet, this side is Nepal, like, every century, so, when you climb, you're climbing from the border, you see, see the, summit, so, I like to do, those kind of, a bit more, and, like, obviously, nowadays, also, Nepal, there's a lot of youth there, you know, that interest more, for the climbing, rock climbing, sometimes, we have, like, nowadays, a lot of opportunity, like, we have a Nepal, mountain association, national guided mountain nation, a lot of association, they're trekking first, so, and also, sometimes, like, as I told you, we go to the, we do some party, and then, so, we go to the college, for the little talk show, and sometimes, what do I do, so, I take all my gear, climbing gear, and, because, like, a lot of people, even Nepal, they don't know Everest, where is Everest, young people, especially,

Gast 1: and, when they go to a border, if someone else, you know, where is Everest, they don't know, so, we try to, for young people, for the police people, also, like, in-block, trekking, and mountaineering adventure, like, nowadays, we have a pandemic, coronavirus, we don't have any, none of, you know, international tourists, no tourists at all now, so, what we try to do, is like, we try to relate with, you know, the domestic tourists, and, so, so that, for that is like, you know, we try to, you know, the police people, travel, around, inside the country, not, only, sorry, so, I think, yeah, that, that's my vision, for the few, next, coming months, so, like, you know, to, also, I like to take, then, after all, I like to take, people out there, you know, the planning, new route, trekking, a new route, and also, not only foreign, also, like, we try to do, was Nepal, is young people, for, you know, the tourism sector, now, so, I think this is, after all, so, so, the people think, I think Nepal is a poor country, but like, the government is poor here, some people have, really, they're really rich people here, as well, so, once, once we get to them, I think, if we even do, like, you know, the yearly one or two times, like, visit all over Nepal, I think, like, you know, that we can, at least not like, like, Western tourists, but at least we can, you know, stable in our business, so, yeah.

Gast 2: Kama, this is wonderful, what you, what you've just shared, because it triggers something, where Reinhold Messner, he talks about his phases in life, yeah, and he says that every phase of his life was like, seven, eight years, and he's now in his, I don't know, sevens or eight phase of life, where there was one phase, where he climbed the highest mountains, which was the time where he climbed the 14, 8,000 high peaks without oxygen, then there was one phase where he traversed through the deserts, the ice deserts, as well as the sand deserts, and now he's in a different phase of life, where he wants to inspire other people, and share the stories that he has collected over the 70 years that he's been on earth, and he references to that every phase of life had a different vision, had a different motivation for him, and it's just wonderful what you've shared that, you know, that the last phase, let's, the last nine years, or the year seven to 2016, climbing Everest seven times, where every first, and the business maybe was a bigger motivation, that this is now shifting, to something where, you want to explore, new areas, where you would like to give something back already, and inspire the younger generation, can you talk a little bit about more of that, of that shift that you've just uncovered for us?

Gast 1: I, I think the way I did, like, you know, the nowadays is like, even, my opening is, my self-opening is, a lot of people, even like, when you go to political, when you go to government, when you get to post, you just want to post everything, but like, you have to look also back, for other generation, so now, if I work, I can still work like, 10 years more, but like, you know, I want to give opportunity, for another, one young generation, so, they can do climbing, they can do, you know, the like, if I still work Everest, maybe someone don't get a job, so, but now, I'm almost established, I have a small business, so, you know, I don't have to go all the time there, so, so, also, I have to give opportunity, for the young generation, so, that's, I also, I just try to switch, maybe, I just look business, and this is, my job is not only like, you know, the, my responsibility is not only to climb Everest, also give opportunity, also like, inspire other young people, and also like, show, not only climb commercial mountain, also you have to like, explore the new trekking route, explore the new trekking route, so, in the future, so, this is all for, not only for me, this is all for the, also new generation, and also like, sometimes, what I do, try to do, is like, you know, I take all my climbing gear, shoes, crampums, ice eggs, and everything, is like, what I use for climbing Everest, I go to the college, just, I give my free time, like, half an hour, to, you know, explore, explore, like, explore the young people, young student, so, what is it like, because we have, we are mountain countries, so, you have to know about the mountain, you have to know about the things, and I think some, some young people, young boys, they're gold, they're really, you know, they're inspired, and they're really interested, when I see, when I explore on that, this is climbing suit, down suit, up and down, we use for the Everest, a thousand meter, because some people, there's some gold boys, they've never seen this,

like,

Gast 1: down suit, and a huge, wood, trekking, climbing shoes, and a crampum, ice eggs, I think that all, everything gives, big motivation for people, so, that's everything, and I'm also like, now, and whenever I get free time, from my job, I go for social work, so, I build my hospital, in my place, I go there, I'm not a doctor, but we build their hospital, we give, like, we have a combination, with the government, so, the government, send one nurse, and we pay one nurse cost, and also, government send, like, you know, some medication, ourselves also, we do, or some, like, then after, we do, like, all the maintenance, everything there, so, whenever, I get opportunity, I get a free time, I go there, I go there, and I maintain everything, so, I use my free times, so, slowly, you know, everything, try to send everything, also, this social work, also, like, new lesson, for the youth people, you're not taking, everything yourself, also, you have to give, something for the community, that's, you know, I don't know, maybe after 10 years, I have to change other things, but, never know life, so, you know, so, when you live, when you're alive, you have to live life, so, that's, what I do, so, you know, like, as you told, the Ryan and Misha, they change, I think, in our human lives, every 10 years, I think, you have to change, your mind, a little bit, or, you know, not like, you cannot say, like, when you're 60, you can't say, like, I'm 40 years, I think, mind you said, but you are physical now, so, so, that's why, I think, you have to change, every 10 years, fix your ways, a little bit, yeah, so, that's how we do, I do now, yeah,

Gast 2: and I think, this is, this is very touching, karma, yeah, to, to, to inspire, the younger generation, and to show them, what, and share the stories, that, that you have collected, over your, last 30 years, is that something, that you had loved to, to perceive, loved to, experience, when you were, that age, of that generation, that you are now, talking to, in the schools, and, where you go, to share your stories, is that something, that you would, love to have seen, 40 years back, 35 years back, when you were that age?

Gast 1: I think, in a teaser, oh, we are human, is never satisfied, but, like, for me, it's like, you know, the, I'm satisfied, and I love, what I did, you know, the, like, so, I think, you have to be happy, what you have, so, obviously, we are human, we are expecting, more and more, but like, when I see, if I'm looking, back to like, 30, 35 years, world, first thing is, I want to climb Everest, I did Everest, several times, so, then after, I want to like, you know, travel abroad, I did, so, you know, I have a small business, so, looks like, everything, I get, I have what I wish, so, you know, then after, like, I did also something, for the community, not only myself, we build hospital, you know, for the community, for the people, it's free, everything, it's not a business, so, so, that's, if I do, back, 30, 30, like, you know, the 45 years, I think like, I'm happy, because a lot of people saying, well, we still do that, but I'm not a designer person, so, you know, I try to be happy, what I have, what I did, so, you know, yeah, I'm super happy, I'm satisfied people there.

Gast 2: Kama, looking, looking at, the last year, and, um, looking at the pandemic, that has, um, spread, that has spread over the world, um, how has that changed your life, how has that changed the life of other shepherds, of the mountain guides, and the whole tourism industry, and the business that you need to, to get your family, as well as yourself along, how has that changed Nepal, how has it changed the environment, how has it changed you?

Gast 1: I think, yeah, environmentally, everything is everywhere, clean, because no one is there, but like, obviously, it's big change, you see, Nepal, I think like, we have a, only one foreign income source is tourism, tourism is without investing, we get money, when, when people land, in Nepal airport, one people get, get, per, 100 people job, because when he land, when one foreigner land, cost time, cost, he land there, he pay, visa fee for government, then he use local passport, then he go to, first passport, you know, the passport, job, then after he go to hotel, hotel he paid, he get a hotel business, and after like, he go to restaurant, this restaurant, food is going everywhere, small, you know, the factory, you know, the parma, everywhere, because the, visitable come from, the local market, everything what you, and then, the one tourist, he go to the like, look land, and he have to pay local, domestic flight, for the business, and he, he, you know, they spend every penny, for every lane, defending the lodges, the money is split everywhere, you know, the one people, that means, one tourist, give 100 people, another job, for 100 people, so, yeah, yeah, that's, big disaster here, all the, all the business, like, hotel is shot down now, they have a, no, no tourist at all, everything, only, several times, few hotels open, but most of the like, four or five hotel hotels, they're closed, and also a lot of guest houses closed, if you go to, for some reason, they, some, small, they, you know, they survive, because the domestic, trees, as I like, I told you before, but rest for our life, for us, it's also, it's not really, big change, but it's still, it's big, the business is shot down, we don't have anything, zero, since one year, sometimes, it's hard to survive, but, you know, anyhow, we manage now, so, like, example, sometimes, people who live above, some people, some people has a business, lodges, they're on good money before, but some people, they don't have lodges, they're farming, their main income sources, from the climbing average, or other mountain, I think those people, they're having very, you know, the hard time, and also in Kathmandu, a lot of people, I think, the people who work for the trekking, I think 30% people, they move back to the village, because, in the village, they still can't go agriculture, farming,

Gast 1: and so, they're back, in Kathmandu, still people who live in Kathmandu, like, example, I have a house here, so I don't have to pay her, I rent, and I have a few saving from the, like, few years, so it's still, few months for me, it's no problem, but like, like, I think same level of mind, they have their struggling life, like, businesses, like, travel company, no business, trekking company, no business, all the hotel is empty, since one year, and then, so like, some people has, like, huge loan from the bank, so they have to pay the loan, and, so that, that's big disaster here, so I hope, no more long time, so, but, you know, we still, never know, but also, sometimes, if you look, all over the world, this has happened, not only for us, this happened all over the world, so sometimes, that's also, no complaint, there is no way to complain, so, you know, so, everywhere, UK, Europe, German, Belgium, UK, looks, you know, everywhere, trouble, everywhere, problem, people are saying, I have more than, like, 500 people, so, you know, praying, we, we, we do share email, but not a business, every high, hello, only, and, so, so, that's a big, big change, so, you know, I think it's, it's, it's just like, three or four more years, for complete recovery, like, other, when this happened, like, UK, they have a completely, in the second version, pandemic, so, now, everybody house, so, obviously, some online people, they work from house, but except mostly, in lockdown, so, people who want to come to Nepal, but they don't have money,

Gast 1: but they have, to come here, they also have earned money, so, I think, that's why, I think, even if the pandemic is over, it takes two years, to, you know, still recover, for tourism in the fall, so, it's, it's a big loss, for the country, economically, everything is big loss, here, yeah.

Gast 2: And, do you think, that the pandemic, and how it has, hit you, in what you were doing, before, was a trigger, to change, your focus, a little bit, towards, new trails, exploring, new paths, as well as, talking to the younger generation, to give something back, and let them, or give them the story, so that they get inspired, for their life, do you think, that this was a trigger, for you, that your current, movement, wouldn't have happened, without the pandemic?

Gast 1: Yeah, that, that's one of the, my, planning, but like, as a, COVID virus, you know, we are not allowed, to get a huge, amount of people here, we try to do some, like, you know, the, motivation program, but like, you know, we have a certain rule, and regulation, sometimes, we can't do that, but like, for researching new areas, so I'm gonna do that, after one, one month probably, I go to some region, but also, and besides that, I go to, my village, where, our clinic is running there, to there, because there is always, this one work, there's something, there's something problem, always there, or, sometimes, like, we have to work, like, government paperwork, to get the permission, everything, so, and also, some repair there, and check everything, properly working, or not there, I spend there, like, sometimes, one or two weeks there, and other hand, like, you know, I was thinking too, maybe, we should change also, like, not completely changing, trains, but like, we should think also, some alternative way, because, if tourism is not bad, within one or two years, that's what we should do, it's not gonna work, like, years and years, so, you know, we have to, run the life, live the lives, we need the money, so, you know, I was thinking maybe, I was, just see and wait, like, few months, two or three months, then I think I might, you know, change maybe, like, some local business,

Gast 1: or, you know, maybe I go back to the village, to start some, like, farming there, like, we have, fruit farm, or whatever, like, exist, whatever possible, so, I try to think, there's something, possibilities, you know, a few ways, so, because, like, if this thing is happening, more and more, that people are talking about, the back is in, but, if the back is in, you know, the, like, we don't get back is in on the time, so, what do we should do, so,

Gast 2: yeah, and you mentioned something wonderful, that we are a species, who is able to adapt, much quicker, than, all other species, that have been, and are still on the planet, yeah, because we have, an intellectual property, and if, we put this, into something new, something great, has been developed, so, how your life has changed, over those 45 years, many times, it will change, for the future, with some great visions, to come, Karma, it's, I think, a good time, to wrap up a little bit, thanks for sharing, your, your thoughts, on, how, how a vision, can be achieved, by, having passion, the hard work, you have to try, maybe many times, like you've, explained it, with the mountains, as well as that, sometimes, it needs, the, the skill, to adapt, to a new situation, that you are not able, to change, or influence, and, it's great, to hear, your, your current vision, to inspire, the younger generation, to, so that they have, the opportunity, to stand up, on shoulders, of giants, you are a giant, in, in their perspective, how could, people reach out to, that, that had listened to, listened to that podcast, and would like to get in touch, with you, maybe for a future, for a future, tracking experience, or for another exchange, what's a great way, to get in touch, with you, Kama?

Gast 1: Yeah, we, I have a small company, it's called, Sherpa Mountain Journey, and also like, obviously, I have a, WhatsApp, also Facebook, Instagram, and also like, we do project, also it's, it's called, Sherpa Hellcaved Nepal, and, also like, obviously nowadays, it's like, most of people use Facebook, or you know, I mean, email is best way, to get, or connect with me,

Gast 2: fantastic, so we put all this, into the show notes, as well as, on the post, that we do, with this podcast, so that people can reach out to you, get connected with you, it's a, it's a pattern, a, a, approach, that we always do, with this podcast, that, the last word, is, is for the guest, so, if, if you would like to send a message, a final word, to the audience, not to me, or anybody, it's not, it's to the audience, what would be, your last sentence, what would be your last word, that you would like to spread, to the listeners?

Gast 1: Yeah, we are suffering from the pandemic, and everything, so you know, the, it's, I think that, one of the reasons, what we did in, in, in the past life, before, so you know, the, so, everything is, be happy, you know, stay home, stay safe, you know, like, you know, that we are human, we are always expecting, you know, more and more, so I think, like, we have to be, stay home, stay safe, and, be happy, what do you have, so happy, what do you have, so, that's all I like to say, thank you, thank you very much, yeah. Thank you.